The Lottery Winners frontman Thom Rylance has spoken to NME about his regret at starting a row with Kate Nash over the lack of working class representation in the arts – as well as what to expect from their upcoming album and support dates with Robbie Williams.
Last month, Rylance tweeted that Nash shouldn’t try to represent working class musicians, as well as criticising her background as a former pupil of the BRIT School, mistakenly labelling it a fee-paying establishment.
The tweet was in response to Nash’s ‘Butts For Buses’ campaign, which has seen the singer join Only Fans to raise funds for her tour, as well as highlighting how it’s far more lucrative for musicians to sell images of their body compared to streaming royalties.
Nash responded to Rylance stating that she was “slightly confused by your argument”. Elaborating in an interview with NME this week, she continued: “What’s the argument about the BRIT School? It’s a free performing arts school. An important message to get out there is that the BRIT School is for everyone. You don’t have to pay to go there. If you heard and got confused, don’t be discouraged from applying. Free performing arts access to young people is so important.”
Rylance had previously clarified his comments, saying he was “in no way meaning to start beef with anybody.” Now, in an interview with NME, Rylance has admitted he regrets attacking Nash and The BRIT School, fearing his comments had overshadowed his wider point that working class people need greater access to music and other art forms.
“My intention was to make valid points, but the way in which I delivered it took that validity away,” said Rylance. “Hindsight is a great thing. So is education, and I’ve since spent a lot of time educating myself on the matter.”
Apologising to Nash, he added: “I’m sorry, genuinely. What Kate is doing is great, because she’s highlighting the systemic problems working class people face in the arts. The lack of access working class people face is very disproportionate, in the music industry and other arts. I agree with everything Kate is saying, and I want to join her in being a voice too.”
The debate followed shortly after The Lottery Winners were named as the support to Robbie Williams on his 2025 European tour. The band also release their new album ‘KOKO’ on February 21, following on from 2023’s ‘Anxiety Replacement Therapy‘, which reached Number One ahead of new albums by The National and Jessie Ware.
‘KOKO’ features collaborations with Nickelback frontman Chad Kroeger, Frank Turner, Reverend And The Makers and Shed Seven singer Rick Witter.
Read on for how Rylance wants to help other musicians, becoming friends with the “so sensitive” Williams and his band’s empathy with Nickelback.
NME: Hi, Thom. How are you feeling after your tweet about Nash caused such a furore?
Thom Rylance: “It was strange, because it was flippantly done. It was a half-thought tweet in frustration, where I kicked out in the wrong direction. It’s sobering to realise I can do tweets which might end up on huge media.
“I’ve since spent a lot of time reading up on the matter. I’m now in a much better position to speak about it, rather than getting myself in lots of trouble for a tweet written in my underpants. I feel like I’m back to being the naughty kid in school, in the headmaster’s office. I’ve got no filter, and that’s something I need to work on.”
What was the message actually intended to be in your initial tweet?
“How working class people have such little access to the arts, relatively speaking. I read an Arts Hub article stating only 8 per cent of people in the arts are from a working class background. That means people are missing out on interesting stories and viewpoints.
“I’m not sure what the answers are, but I want to use the reach our band has. We’re going into local schools to talk to kids about how to get a career in music. I don’t really know how to do that, other than to say that, if you’re from where we are [Leigh, near Wigan], you’ve got to make a lot of sacrifices and work hard for a long time.
“I’ve got talented friends who had to give up music or relegate it to an expensive hobby. That’s sad, because maybe you won’t get to see bands like Oasis again, unless there’s more of a channel for working class people into the arts.”
How do you now view The BRIT School?
“I wish there was more of an opportunity for more people to go there. A BRIT School North opens in Bradford in 2027. That’s a great start, but it’s still limited. Why isn’t there more funding for performing arts state schools?
“I don’t want to start a north vs south debate, and I’m not after taking anything from anyone. I just want to see a more level playing field.”
What do you think of the ‘Butts For Buses’ campaign?
“It’s a great stunt, as it’s highlighted a lot of issues about how musicians aren’t being paid fairly. It’s a real problem for all of us, and it’s great Kate has highlighted that. Let’s see more attention on it.”
Does part of you that thinks musicians should be allowed to gob off and cause controversy?
“I’ve always been a gobshite. I got kicked out of two schools for it, as I’m full of ADHD. It’s important to make mistakes and nobody gets it right first time. But financially, working-class people in the arts can’t afford to make those mistakes.”
In happier news: how does it feel to land the support on the Robbie Williams tour?
“It’s a dream. The first time I sang in front of anyone was doing ‘Strong’ at primary school. I can vividly remember it, how a code got uploaded in my brain: this is how you can get dopamine. It changed everything for me.”
How did the approach from Robbie come about?
“He heard our song ‘Superpower’ on the radio and commented on a post: ‘Absolute banger’. I got a message asking for my phone number and Robbie Facetimed me.
“We ring each other a lot, talking about ADHD, being show-offs, how it feels when people are nasty about you online. I also went to the premiere of [new biopic] Better Man, which is one of the best films I’ve ever seen. It was so weird being on the red carpet: talk about imposter syndrome. But I was with a great group of people, with Jon and Laura McClure, Tom Grennan and Vicky McClure. I thought: ‘One day, I’m going to have a film about me, and a red carpet with Holly Willoughby on it’.”
What was the biggest surprise you didn’t expect about Robbie before meeting him?
“How human he is, despite portraying himself as a monkey in his film. It’s mad how things affect Rob. He’s playing to 90,000 people a night in stadiums, but he’s still so sensitive. ”
Would you be up for a collaboration with him?
“That’s very much in my plans. He’s said he wants us to get up with him in his set on the tour, I’m not sure what for. Maybe I’ll do the Nicole Kidman bit in ‘Something Stupid’.”
Lottery Winners’ new album follows ‘Anxiety Replacement Therapy’ getting to Number One. Do you feel under pressure to repeat that success?
“Of course the pressure is back. Can we ever do this again? Do we want to? Yes, so we’ll throw everything at getting a second Number One album for Leigh. Getting that first Number One meant acceptance, that we’d broken into the industry despite all the uphill battles.”
“We seem to be doing OK with the new album so far. People are already getting tattoos of the artwork.”
Are you starting to get new bands asking you how to get a Number One?
“Yeah, all the time. I always try to give the best advice I can, but there aren’t any cheat codes to success that I know of. I’m happy to pass on what I know, as it’s important to get as much new music as we can out into the culture. My DMs are open.”
The recent single ‘UFO’ talked about feeling like an alien. Do you still feel that way, despite the recent success?
“Always, yeah. It’s only onstage where I feel comfortable. I don’t feel like I’m me up there, that it’s some other guy who turns up on stage all the time. I’m glad he does.
“The video for ‘UFO’ is about my first day at a new primary school. I’d been kicked out of my previous school and I felt alien going into this new place. I didn’t know what was wrong with me, that I’ve got ADHD, so I just felt like a bad egg. Making the song absolved me of those feelings, and it’s humbling to know I’m not alone, with the amount of people who’ve got in touch to say how ‘UFO’ and ‘Superpower’ have resonated with them.”
How did you get to work with Chad Kroeger from Nickelback on new song ‘Ragdoll’?
“We supported them on tour. It was cool to hate Nickelback for so long, from when they were the first internet meme band. But they still sell out arenas all over the world, and their story inspires me, as they’re from humble beginnings too.”
Frank Turner features on the album too – as he has done on every Lottery Winners album.
“Frank is one of my absolute idols, but his work ethic is ridiculous. Even on a rare day off on tour, he’ll go to a gig. I’ll tell him: ‘Just watch Bargain Hunt!'”
“Supporting Frank early on was huge for us. We’re trying to do that too, offering our support slots up to bands who I can see are working hard, giving them the chance Frank gave us. We’ve got a three-show residency at Manchester Academy this month, and the line-up is littered with who we consider to be the best up-and-coming talent.”
How did it feel to have your first big radio song recently, with Reverend And The Makers collaboration ‘You Again’?
“When Jon McClure sent me the chorus on a WhatsApp note, I was (shouts): ‘THIS IS THE ONE! THIS IS IT!’ I knew straight away it was going to fly, I was like a kid at Christmas. I’m looking forward to working with Jon so much on various different projects.”
‘KOKO’ is short for “Keep On Keeping On”. Does that feel appropriate after the recent headlines?
“Yeah, but really it’s about the self-reflection and self-forgiveness I went through writing these songs. I’m a sensitive baby, and sometimes I’ll have tantrums. I feel things intensely. But it means I get to write songs that resonate with people. That’s all that matters.”
Lottery Winners’ new album ‘KOKO’ is released on February 21 on Modern Sky. They play a handful of dates this month before a full winter tour kicking off in February before a run of festival appearances and Robbie Williams support slots. Visit here for tickets and more information.