There are songs that tell it like it is, and then there’s ‘Itty Bitty‘, the lead single from Ashnikko‘s upcoming second album. “I’m gettin’ finger-fucked in the back of the club / Me and my girlfriend just broke up,” the singer-rapper shrugs over rubbery beats. When we meet at the London office of her PR reps, Ashnikko tells NME she wrote about her “itty bitty, teeny tiny, little slutty skirt” because wearing it makes her feel “powerful”.
“‘Itty Bitty’ is about the mysterious, nebulous, exciting space that comes after a breakup,” adds the North Carolina-born, London-based performer, who split from her girlfriend in 2024. “It’s about the erotic possibility of what could happen on a night out with your friends, which I find very, very exciting, especially as we move into summer and the sun comes out and the blossoms bloom.”
Ashnikko, who identifies as genderqueer and pansexual, and uses both she/her and they/them pronouns, has always been a brilliantly blunt songwriter. Her pummelling music weaves hip-hop, hyperpop, punk, nu-metal and trap into a savage tapestry that commands your full attention. In 2019, she went viral on TikTok with ‘Stupid’, an alt-bop banger that lobbed sick burns at a “butthole” ex: “I go ghost for no damn reason / Stupid boy think I need him.”
The following year, she stormed the charts with ‘Daisy’, an offbeat trap bop written from the viewpoint of a rapist-killing dominatrix-vigilante. “Being a bitch is my kink, what the fuck else did you think?” Ashnikko spat. Then in 2023, she unleashed ‘Weedkiller’ – a fierce and fascinating debut album on which she welcomed listeners into her “post-apocalyptic dystopian fae world” – and landed on The Cover of NME.
But now, Ashnikko tells us she’s jettisoning high-concept songwriting in favour of a more “autobiographical” approach. In person, the artist born Ashton Nicole Casey is more reflective than her provocative stage persona might suggest – like many musicians, she contains multitudes that make her creative output richer. In an insightful In Conversation interview, she talks about supporting Billie Eilish on tour, embracing her lack of “palatability” to some male listeners, and finding the inherent joy in her job.
How is your new music shaping up in this era? Obviously ‘Itty Bitty’ is the first track and there’s still a way to go. But how does it feel different to ‘Weedkiller’?
“I think that a lot of my music in the past was very, very fantastical – it felt like I was kind of stepping into this character, this stage persona. And now I feel, frontal lobe fully developed, I kind of am my stage persona. So the music itself is reflecting that: it feels a lot more autobiographical. This music reads more as diary entries.
“It reads more as conversations with friends. You know when the girls go out for dinner and we’re just talking about the most graphic, heinous shit of all time. Like the other night, I went out with my girls and we were just talking about anal for like an hour, but [while] eating the most gorgeous meal. [The music] is kind of that conversation with girls.”
Have you gone back to any formative music from your youth as inspiration?
“I mean, I feel like my music is massively inspired by the very powerful women that I grew up listening to. Because for me at the time, these women were so unapologetic and portraying a certain sexual liberation and autonomy that I was not familiar with where I grew up. And so they’re massive icons for me in my life. I’m always going back and listening to Gwen [Stefani], M.I.A., Missy [Elliott], Nicki Minaj, Björk and [Lady] Gaga. It’s a constant rotation of icons.”
I feel like when you’re younger, pop stars can almost seem like superheroes.
“Oh my god, absolutely. I’ve said this before, but I didn’t start listening to any male musicians until I was in my late, late teens. I think if I were to go back and psychoanalyse, I just really needed these older sister role models, and that’s what they were to me.”
We’re with you in London today, but for a good chunk of February and March, you were on tour in Australia with Billie Eilish. What was that experience like?
“I love Australia. We were having the best time ever, just climbing waterfalls and going on hikes and eating good food and playing these shows. Yeah, it was incredible. I mean, Billie plays four shows in each city, so it was the chillest, dreamiest support tour of all time. And Billie was so kind, and her team was so nice, and the fans were so welcoming. I’ve done support tours in the past that were kind of a nightmare, but this was from heaven.”
Why can they be a nightmare?
“For me, it’s just [about] a lack of control. You know, it’s not your stage, it’s not your fandom. I have OCD, so I love to be in control of everything. But this was great, I loved it.”
At this point, how do you see your purpose as a musician? Has it changed a lot in the nine years you’ve been releasing music?
“I mean, I take it way less seriously now. I think before everything I was doing, every interview I was doing, every shoot I was doing, every song I was putting out, it [felt] like make or break. For me, it was so stressful. I was sick with stress for years, especially when I first came out [as a musician]. And now I’m just like: ‘You know, it’s not brain surgery.’ I’m just doing a job that is inherently joyful and meant to create community and bring people together…
“I’ve been on a journey of finding what it all means to me. Because sometimes, as I get older, my personal ethics kind of go against my career. Like, being in the public eye is not super-normal or good for you. So for me, it’s about finding a safe space for me to feel comfortable continuing [to do] this job, and yeah, I think that is about being joyful and creating community.”
How did you get to a point where each release or shoot didn’t feel like make or break?
“To be fair, it didn’t start with me tearing myself up. It was me putting stuff out and just being ripped to shreds by incel demons and little gremlins on the internet. But then I realised that we have this societal disease where we kind of revel in destroying femme artists. It’s just an obsession with ripping them to shreds. And so I’m a lot more chill about it now. I’m like, ‘OK, I’m just gonna get shit regardless. And so do the other girls.’ Not that I want them to get that as well, but I’m like, ‘This isn’t only happening to me, so it’s fine.'”
Do you think they heap negativity on you because you project a certain confidence?
“Once you stop performing for the male gaze, they take that as a personal attack – like, how dare you take away your fuckability from me? Like, I know that I’m a little creature. I’m a little freak online and in my daily life and on stage, and I think I’ve taken away some of my fuckability and my… what’s the word, palatability?”
Maybe by taking away that palatability to some people, you’ve increased it for others, though – the people want to reach.
“Exactly. I feel like it’s important to experience the full range of human grotesqueness. I like being a little ugly creature, and I also like being a little sexy diva. And, yeah, there’s a whole spectrum in between that I would like to experience and play around with [in] my gender. The fullness of the human experience is something that I am seeking.”
Finally, what are your main aims for 2025?
“I want to build an incredible live show – get really theatrical with it. I want to create gorgeous visual art to accompany my album. I want to finish this album, I want to put out this album. I just want to create and also make art in mediums that are just for me. I feel so creative right now. I think making this music has kind of unlocked something in me. It all feels really, really abundant right now.”
Ashnikko’s ‘Itty Bitty’ is out now via Parlophone Records